tk421
Apr 13, 12:34 PM
Nobody I know that's a professional editor (as opposed to a hobbyist) is very excited. If I had to sum up the opinions in two sentences, it would be: It looks like a mixed bag. I need to hear more.
My thoughts: On the surface, they seem to have addressed a lot of "problems" that didn't exist for me. At the same time, they did NOT address what I found to be the largest shortcomings: Media Management, and Multi-Editor Support. Which leads me to believe that it targets a different audience than I am. For example, I didn't see anything that makes it better for feature film use. But a lot of automated stuff (audio processing, color correction, etc.) will make it better for wedding videos or projects with really small budgets.
Some things, like making audio and video merged in a single track, sound like a drawback, not a feature. But I would have to try it out myself. Maybe it'd be good once I got used to the new way of doing things.
There were some things that sounded good. Utilizing multiple cores, 64 bit, background rendering, editing while ingesting, and PluralEyes-like audio syncing. Of course all this depends on how they're implemented. Just like I might actually like merging audio and video, I might end up not liking these things (for example if you can't disable background rendering). One other "feature" I really like is the price, but that's secondary to the actual functionality.
I guess we'll see. I'm interested in hearing more.
My thoughts: On the surface, they seem to have addressed a lot of "problems" that didn't exist for me. At the same time, they did NOT address what I found to be the largest shortcomings: Media Management, and Multi-Editor Support. Which leads me to believe that it targets a different audience than I am. For example, I didn't see anything that makes it better for feature film use. But a lot of automated stuff (audio processing, color correction, etc.) will make it better for wedding videos or projects with really small budgets.
Some things, like making audio and video merged in a single track, sound like a drawback, not a feature. But I would have to try it out myself. Maybe it'd be good once I got used to the new way of doing things.
There were some things that sounded good. Utilizing multiple cores, 64 bit, background rendering, editing while ingesting, and PluralEyes-like audio syncing. Of course all this depends on how they're implemented. Just like I might actually like merging audio and video, I might end up not liking these things (for example if you can't disable background rendering). One other "feature" I really like is the price, but that's secondary to the actual functionality.
I guess we'll see. I'm interested in hearing more.
HyperX13
Apr 15, 12:57 PM
I have read this a few times now and I still do not get your point.
Being gay = being promiscuous?
Or is it just a very poor attempt at sarcasm?
Bad, bad taste�
promiscuous or not, it is me. I want rights based on my sexual promiscuity. Why is it different? That is who I am.
Being gay = being promiscuous?
Or is it just a very poor attempt at sarcasm?
Bad, bad taste�
promiscuous or not, it is me. I want rights based on my sexual promiscuity. Why is it different? That is who I am.
Multimedia
Oct 29, 10:28 AM
I think I remember a very long wait time for shipments when the Mac Pro was first announced. Is it likely we'll see another extensive wait time once they accept orders, even IF they announce Octo-cores in mid November? Also, on a completely different note, will this processor upgrade effect programs that worked on woodcrest processors? As in, is there a chance a program that works on woodcrest wont work on clovertown?No. All will work on Clovertown that worked on Woodcrest. Each Clovertown is simply two Woodcrests combined into one pin compatible package.
Apple should take orders beginning Tuesday November 14, the day after Intel has their "Shipping" Press Event. There will not be a big delay from then and when they ship because Intel is delivering them in quantity to manufacturers right away in November and the number of orders will be small compared to C2D products as well as Woodcrest products.
I'm not sure it's fair to characterize Apple as always being slow to ship new products. My impression of the C2D iMac release Wednesday September 6, 2006 is that it was both early and rapidly deployed. I don't think many of us saw it coming and they were immediately for sale in quantity in all the Apple Stores as well as online shipping immediately.I heard somewhere that the Clovertowns are actually slower than the Xeons, but with 2x as many cores will there be much difference?Clovertowns are Xeons. They are Dual Woodcrests on one pin compatible package. They are not slower. They run 2.66GHz which is same as the stock MBP offering now. They will provide a total of 21.28GHz worth of power vs. 10.64GHz or 12GHz on the current 2.66GHz & 3GHz 4-core models. Do you know your workflow? Do you know what you use is multi-core aware or not? Do you know if you want to run multiple instances of multi-core aware applicatinos simultaneously? These are the kind of questions you need to ask yourself.
The Dual Clovertown Mac Pro is going to cost you over $4,000 once you put a decent amount of RAM in it. So are you ready for that much expense to save huge chunks of time? This is a Time-Is-Money product. If you don't see how you're going to save time with such a Mac then you may as well pass on it.
I'm sitting here writing you on my Quad G5 while I watch the paint dry on my two Toast video compression series I'm currently running so I can run a Handbrake compression series and another Toast compression series after they finish.
I have never needed so much more power in my lives with Macs since the early years '84-'93 as I do now. I think there are several others here who also are in the same boat. If you're here out of curiosity and not need, then you haven't yet realized how much you can do simultaneously on a Mac once you develop a Multi-Threaded Workload process that begs for more power all the time.
i would say that this upcoming 8-core Mac Pro is the first Mac that might be able to keep ahead of me. But in a few months I will probably be yearning for a 16-core Mac Pro as soon as Intel & Apple can put it together with independent busses for each core or at least more busses per core than one for four. Like maybe at least two for four ASAP.
Apple should take orders beginning Tuesday November 14, the day after Intel has their "Shipping" Press Event. There will not be a big delay from then and when they ship because Intel is delivering them in quantity to manufacturers right away in November and the number of orders will be small compared to C2D products as well as Woodcrest products.
I'm not sure it's fair to characterize Apple as always being slow to ship new products. My impression of the C2D iMac release Wednesday September 6, 2006 is that it was both early and rapidly deployed. I don't think many of us saw it coming and they were immediately for sale in quantity in all the Apple Stores as well as online shipping immediately.I heard somewhere that the Clovertowns are actually slower than the Xeons, but with 2x as many cores will there be much difference?Clovertowns are Xeons. They are Dual Woodcrests on one pin compatible package. They are not slower. They run 2.66GHz which is same as the stock MBP offering now. They will provide a total of 21.28GHz worth of power vs. 10.64GHz or 12GHz on the current 2.66GHz & 3GHz 4-core models. Do you know your workflow? Do you know what you use is multi-core aware or not? Do you know if you want to run multiple instances of multi-core aware applicatinos simultaneously? These are the kind of questions you need to ask yourself.
The Dual Clovertown Mac Pro is going to cost you over $4,000 once you put a decent amount of RAM in it. So are you ready for that much expense to save huge chunks of time? This is a Time-Is-Money product. If you don't see how you're going to save time with such a Mac then you may as well pass on it.
I'm sitting here writing you on my Quad G5 while I watch the paint dry on my two Toast video compression series I'm currently running so I can run a Handbrake compression series and another Toast compression series after they finish.
I have never needed so much more power in my lives with Macs since the early years '84-'93 as I do now. I think there are several others here who also are in the same boat. If you're here out of curiosity and not need, then you haven't yet realized how much you can do simultaneously on a Mac once you develop a Multi-Threaded Workload process that begs for more power all the time.
i would say that this upcoming 8-core Mac Pro is the first Mac that might be able to keep ahead of me. But in a few months I will probably be yearning for a 16-core Mac Pro as soon as Intel & Apple can put it together with independent busses for each core or at least more busses per core than one for four. Like maybe at least two for four ASAP.
SMM
Oct 21, 12:52 PM
It will come, just not with the initial production models. With the quad-core chips, Intel is already running into FSB bandwidth issues as it is. The Clovertowns are essentially dual Woodcrest CPUs stuck on the same die, sharing the same FSB and communication between the first duo-core CPU and the second duo-core CPU on that die must travel onto the FSB and into the other CPU. Between the two cores that are linked directly, data sharing can be handled through the L1 cache. So, depending on your application, the 8-core may be no better than a 4-core system -- if what your'e doing is already maxing out your CPU bus bandwidth. Somwhere down the road as Intel shifts to its 45nm production process and fully integrates all 4 cores on a single CPU (and later, 8 cores on die), we will see massive improvements in inter-core bandwidth. They will have to step-up on the FSB bandwidth though... Possibly by increasing the MHz, but more than likely we'll see some of that combined with increasing the width of the data path and possibly using multiple parallel FSB designs. ...Going to be interesting, that's for sure. And with Intel's new process and the plans for continuously jamming more cores onto a die at higher speeds, I think we're in for a real ride over the next 5 years or so.
Absolutely agree. It must be exciting to be an EE working on this stuff right now. So many options to explore. How would you design a memory bus which would be dynamic enough to adjust for a doubling of processors? If you had a fixed, known number of processors, the design is straight-forward. But, the new multi-core design is not something they have had to deal with before. I wonder how they will do it?
Absolutely agree. It must be exciting to be an EE working on this stuff right now. So many options to explore. How would you design a memory bus which would be dynamic enough to adjust for a doubling of processors? If you had a fixed, known number of processors, the design is straight-forward. But, the new multi-core design is not something they have had to deal with before. I wonder how they will do it?
flopticalcube
Apr 22, 08:00 PM
Didn't you know? Aside from owning Apple products it's also quite trendy being an atheist. They think they don't need to back up their points with Reason or facts so it's a kind of intellectual laziness which compels most people.
I'm not saying that I'm a devout Christian or anything of the sort, I'm agnostic, but it's based on Reason.
Please expound on said reason, for the benefit of all...
I'm not saying that I'm a devout Christian or anything of the sort, I'm agnostic, but it's based on Reason.
Please expound on said reason, for the benefit of all...
MacCoaster
Oct 10, 04:06 AM
Originally posted by ryme4reson
<EDIT> I am gonna try to run this on my brothers 333 celeron on a 66MHZ bus with 320 RAM, I know my 933 is not the fastest, but maybe it just found its competition. :) </EDIT>
I had a friend run my C# implementation on his 333MHz Celeron o/c'ed to 375MHz. His result was 108085. *GASP!* 375 MHz Celeron BEATS 933MHz PowerPC G4 (no L2/L3). This is interesting.
<EDIT> I am gonna try to run this on my brothers 333 celeron on a 66MHZ bus with 320 RAM, I know my 933 is not the fastest, but maybe it just found its competition. :) </EDIT>
I had a friend run my C# implementation on his 333MHz Celeron o/c'ed to 375MHz. His result was 108085. *GASP!* 375 MHz Celeron BEATS 933MHz PowerPC G4 (no L2/L3). This is interesting.
Applespider
Mar 20, 06:27 PM
I switch all the time on this issue. For the most part, DRM doesn't get in the way of anything I do so I think 'what the hey!'
Then I envision wanting to make a silly video and using some music with it (which I could do if I'd burned it off a CD) and not being allowed to with the iTMS stuff. And yes, I know that the CD way is illegal too but until the RIAA make a very easy way for Joe Public to be able to pay a nominal amount for a very limited distribution, not-for-sale video, people are going to do it illegally.
Then I envision wanting to make a silly video and using some music with it (which I could do if I'd burned it off a CD) and not being allowed to with the iTMS stuff. And yes, I know that the CD way is illegal too but until the RIAA make a very easy way for Joe Public to be able to pay a nominal amount for a very limited distribution, not-for-sale video, people are going to do it illegally.
~Shard~
Oct 30, 05:45 PM
Personally I'm waiting for this upgrade not for the 8 cores (it doesn't really help my kind of workflow much) but hopefully a base of 2 gig ram for less and a price drop, even a small one on the quad 2.66 and 3.0Ghz processors. Considering the Macbook Pros now come with 2 gig base it seems fairly likely.
Keep in mind the Mac Pro does not use the same type of RAM as the MBP. The Mac Pro uses FB-DIMM technology which is much more expesnsive, so as a result, I would disagree with you and say that it is not very likely we will see 2 GB as the base RAM configuration in the new Mac Pros - not without the extra cost being compensated for in some manner. :cool:
Keep in mind the Mac Pro does not use the same type of RAM as the MBP. The Mac Pro uses FB-DIMM technology which is much more expesnsive, so as a result, I would disagree with you and say that it is not very likely we will see 2 GB as the base RAM configuration in the new Mac Pros - not without the extra cost being compensated for in some manner. :cool:
mjstew33
Jul 12, 01:23 AM
Or maybe instead of a Mac pro mini, it might be a Mac mini Extreme? :cool:
driftway
Aug 14, 10:17 PM
I have had ATT for almost three years now - and I haven't had one dropped call.
hahahahahahaha That was a good one.
hahahahahahaha That was a good one.
jiggie2g
Jul 12, 01:48 PM
Jiggy2g - yes its all very 'disturbing'... whatever! calm down dude, the geekness is just too much (whoa man did you see that conroe at 4ghz!!)...
(the tone of your post just cracked me up) - we are all very 'disappointed' in you.
Point Proven..Noobs like this are the reason why sites like \http://mac-sucks.com/ exist.
uhm, where does that come from?:confused:
so, why should your conroe based machine blow a mac out of the water? we don't know the specs yet. and as you state yourself they are going to use standard intel stuff. so speedwise they should be equal to any other PC. only twice as expensive.:p
Because unlike Apple , getting your own custom motherboard from ASUS / MSI / Gigabyte / DFI. means you have real choices , you can choose different chipsets from Intel , ATI , Nvidia , VIA. NOT JUST STOCK PARTS. I can get that 10 USB , 8 SATA , WiFi , eSATA , Dual PCIe 16x that supports Crossfire or SLI anyway i want it, Apple will never do this , even Dull gives u that much.
Also
aside of that most people here were rather positive towards the intel switch. and most want a conroe based midrange mac. so why this post?:confused:
Apple will never release a Midtower for the simple fact that this market is the most saturated PC market and Apple is not willing to get into a price war where the margins are already paper thin. same reason u will never see a lowend $599 Macbook. That stipped down iMac is a joke
(the tone of your post just cracked me up) - we are all very 'disappointed' in you.
Point Proven..Noobs like this are the reason why sites like \http://mac-sucks.com/ exist.
uhm, where does that come from?:confused:
so, why should your conroe based machine blow a mac out of the water? we don't know the specs yet. and as you state yourself they are going to use standard intel stuff. so speedwise they should be equal to any other PC. only twice as expensive.:p
Because unlike Apple , getting your own custom motherboard from ASUS / MSI / Gigabyte / DFI. means you have real choices , you can choose different chipsets from Intel , ATI , Nvidia , VIA. NOT JUST STOCK PARTS. I can get that 10 USB , 8 SATA , WiFi , eSATA , Dual PCIe 16x that supports Crossfire or SLI anyway i want it, Apple will never do this , even Dull gives u that much.
Also
aside of that most people here were rather positive towards the intel switch. and most want a conroe based midrange mac. so why this post?:confused:
Apple will never release a Midtower for the simple fact that this market is the most saturated PC market and Apple is not willing to get into a price war where the margins are already paper thin. same reason u will never see a lowend $599 Macbook. That stipped down iMac is a joke
Lone Deranger
Apr 9, 01:10 PM
Hard core gaming is PC gaming. Why because you have to really care about the quality of your games to go out and spend 1000 plus just to play games.
Second iOS devices are not competing with nintendo or Sony's portables. People buy an iPhone as a phone, not to play games and the same goes with all the iOS devices. People Pick up a Portable game like a DS or PSP to play games not to listen to music not to surf the web or watch movies. You are comparing a device that does gaming as a secondary function to something that was developed for the one purpose of gaming.
Nintendo and Sony beg to differ....
Second iOS devices are not competing with nintendo or Sony's portables. People buy an iPhone as a phone, not to play games and the same goes with all the iOS devices. People Pick up a Portable game like a DS or PSP to play games not to listen to music not to surf the web or watch movies. You are comparing a device that does gaming as a secondary function to something that was developed for the one purpose of gaming.
Nintendo and Sony beg to differ....
benixau
Oct 9, 07:39 AM
ZilogZ80
Apr 6, 04:02 AM
Most of these "problems" are down to people not knowing how to operate their Macs. I would recommend to any new switcher (& a lot of the people who have posted in this thread!) get a good book ("The Missing Manual" is great) which explains everything you need to know.
jk8311
Sep 12, 03:24 PM
This is the same thing as having a mac mini connected to your TV...though I guess it has HDMI. This leads me to believe that they will release a Software Update for Front Row upon release of the "iTV".
Now, who wants to start speculating when this device will become the long-rumored TiVO killer? Doesn't look like there's much room back there to fit in a coax - seems like Apple missed out on a decent opportunity...
Now, who wants to start speculating when this device will become the long-rumored TiVO killer? Doesn't look like there's much room back there to fit in a coax - seems like Apple missed out on a decent opportunity...
nebo1ss
Mar 18, 11:47 AM
Hey mates! I live in the UK and according to what I've read, what american mobile companies are charging you is a rip-off! I pay �35 per month (tax included, about $55 USD) and I get: 2000 any network-any time minutes, 5000 same network minutes, 5000 any network messages, UNLIMITED internet, that's right, no capping, no "fair usage policies", UNLIMITED! AAAAND I can tether with up to 5 devices, (macbook and iPad in my case and even my mates iPod touch from time to time when we are out). No extra fees, no hidden tricks. And my iPhone is unlocked, so I can sell it when my contract finishes and any person can use in any country or any network. COMPLAIN PEOPLE!:apple:
Every single UK carrier has a fair use policy. Check again. I agree with you on some points and prefer the UK plans but mainly because they charge different rates for those who own their phone than subsidized phones. I spend six months of the year in the UK and have a 12 month contract plan with o2 where for Sterling 15 or about $22 per month i get 600 minutes, unlimited text and 1g data plus unlimited wifi. I have an unlocked iphone that I use on Tmobile while in the US. I will be changing to "Three" as soon as contract up because they have even more attractive plans.
Every single UK carrier has a fair use policy. Check again. I agree with you on some points and prefer the UK plans but mainly because they charge different rates for those who own their phone than subsidized phones. I spend six months of the year in the UK and have a 12 month contract plan with o2 where for Sterling 15 or about $22 per month i get 600 minutes, unlimited text and 1g data plus unlimited wifi. I have an unlocked iphone that I use on Tmobile while in the US. I will be changing to "Three" as soon as contract up because they have even more attractive plans.
4God
Jul 14, 02:27 PM
Power supply at the top? Blah! :mad: I hate the power supply on the top, not that
it would keep me from purchasing a new MacPro though. ;)
it would keep me from purchasing a new MacPro though. ;)
h'biki
Mar 20, 07:09 PM
It is wrong? How so? If I burn a track for my wedding video, yes, I'm technically breakeing the law, but there is nothing immoral about doing that. No one is losing out on any money. No one is being hurt. He isn't stealing anything. He's breaking a copyright law that makes no sense in that case.
But what if I got hold of that wedding video and decided to, I dunno, turn it into a music video for my own music... and that music video got onto MTV? No one is losing out on any money. No one is being hurt. I'm not stealing. I'm -merely- infringing copyright.
But what if I got hold of that wedding video and decided to, I dunno, turn it into a music video for my own music... and that music video got onto MTV? No one is losing out on any money. No one is being hurt. I'm not stealing. I'm -merely- infringing copyright.
hannahwildcat
Jun 27, 07:19 PM
Ok, so here's my wonderful story about the intelligence or lack thereof within this pitiful company known as ATT. When the Iphone 3G came out, I got the iPhone 2G. I was in Pullman, WA. There was no ATT store in Pullman, so I had to drive to Moscow, ID (about 8 miles). There, I found an ATT kiosk in a mall. So I asked the morons there what i needed to do to get the iPhone. They told me they would set my account up for me and give me the sim card, and then all i would have to do is take the sim card up to Spokane (75 Miles) and they would install the card and I was good to go. Little did I know they were incompetent and had set me up with an acct that would never be used. Ok, so here's part 2 of the story. Got to Spokane, they told me that I didn't need the sim card, just plug the phone into iTunes, and voila! it works. Well, it did work, for about a week... While i wasn't in Pullman. Then I came back from vacation in tacoma (mediocre signal at best) and i couldn't get **** for a signal in my own apt in pullman. A couple of months past, and finally i had had enough. Now for a while i had been getting 2 bills from att, didnt know why, but i always paid my bills online so i just paid them no mind. As it turns out, that first acct they set me up with had been incurring the regular monthly charges even though NO PHONE WAS EVER CONNECTED TO IT! I called ATT to disconnect the iPhone service and they told me about the other acct. they wanted me to pay not only the fees for the acct that i never used, but also the cancellation charge for both accts, even though if i cant get signal, i am supposed to be able to close the acct without the fee. The total would have been around $600. After going up about 3 lvls of management (people who were actually based in the united states and could speak english) they took off all but $100 of the cancellation fee from the iPhone acct.
ATT IS A LOAD OF S---EATERS WHO LIE TO THEIR CUSTOMERS AND HAVE THE WORST F---ING CUSTOMER SERVICE ON THE PLANET. I WILL NEVER EVER DEAL WITH THESE PIECE OF S--- HUMAN BEINGS EVER AGAIN.
A WORD TO APPLE - DON'T ACT LIKE 12 YEAR OLD GIRLS WHINING BECAUSE VERIZON WONT JUMP THROUGH YOUR HOOPS. CUT YOUR LOSSES AND GO WITH THE BEST OF THE BEST.
ATT IS A LOAD OF S---EATERS WHO LIE TO THEIR CUSTOMERS AND HAVE THE WORST F---ING CUSTOMER SERVICE ON THE PLANET. I WILL NEVER EVER DEAL WITH THESE PIECE OF S--- HUMAN BEINGS EVER AGAIN.
A WORD TO APPLE - DON'T ACT LIKE 12 YEAR OLD GIRLS WHINING BECAUSE VERIZON WONT JUMP THROUGH YOUR HOOPS. CUT YOUR LOSSES AND GO WITH THE BEST OF THE BEST.
redAPPLE
Sep 12, 04:07 PM
where is the pre-order list, where i can register? :D
Evangelion
Jul 12, 03:55 AM
I still maintain that there's a "hole" in the new line-up, which is there isn't a single-cpu high-clock-rate system. I think Apple needs a Core 2 Extreme based system with the Conroe XE CPU (initially 2.93 GHz then 3.2 GHz).
Since your concern is the high price of the Xeon, I find it ironic that you want to use XE in a Mac, since XE is also VERY expensive. I believe they cost about $1000 a piece.
I believe that the Woodcrests start at around $400, which isn't outrageous price. For the price of once XE you could have two 2Ghz Woodcrests.
Since your concern is the high price of the Xeon, I find it ironic that you want to use XE in a Mac, since XE is also VERY expensive. I believe they cost about $1000 a piece.
I believe that the Woodcrests start at around $400, which isn't outrageous price. For the price of once XE you could have two 2Ghz Woodcrests.
handsome pete
Apr 12, 11:05 PM
Obviously I know a lot more about it than you. Of course, there are multiple industries that use editing software... but that doesn't matter. You're just puffing out your chest and being snotty.
No, your ignorance of Adobe's stance in the professional broadcast industry comes off as snotty.
No, your ignorance of Adobe's stance in the professional broadcast industry comes off as snotty.
killr_b
Oct 25, 11:49 PM
What type of filters are you applying? Perhaps the plug-in hasn't been optimized for multiple cores.
That was with the flicker filter on max, and a minor color corection using the color corrector.
That was with the flicker filter on max, and a minor color corection using the color corrector.
akw
Mar 20, 05:50 PM
Echoing a comment I saw elsewhere, why doesn't someone just hire this guy. It probably costs more for Apple to sue each person than it would be to hire them and keep them busy fixing these problems internally.
Maybe he's not for hire. Not everyone can be bought. Or, maybe he's already working for Napster.
Maybe he's not for hire. Not everyone can be bought. Or, maybe he's already working for Napster.
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